—  I recall it was when we were making the second prototype of the “working table”, we prepared three samples of the corner of the table for you. You touched the edges and explained to us the difference, and ended up selecting this one. We did produce the first prototype according to your design, but you decided on a different one. Why was that?

Zumthor    You know the sharp edges of things, they had started in the 60s with modernistic furniture. Then they stayed with minimalism. But when I can hold them, sometimes the edges are too hard for me. But here, the edges are a little bit more, let’s say, soft. It also has time, it also has a bit of style. I guess it’s Time & Style.

—  Thank you. How about your design? Is it also changing with time, or more specifically your age?

Zumthor    I don’t have a style or a form. I think I have an attitude toward things. And they are very much connected to myself and what happens around me. At the moment, the world is getting extremely artificial. There are all these virtual tools around us like the internet, and we seem to be connected to everything at the same time. But my observation about people is that we are less connected. We have just a part of all the information, but it’s all completely flat. It doesn’t go deep, and it keeps us racing, racing, racing all the time.

Yesterday, I was reading something from a guy who died a couple of years ago. I think he was a philosopher, a German guy, Roger Willemsen, a very nice guy. So he says, in these exact words, “We were connected to life and to our work, and we could be unhappy, we could be unsure. And though it could be difficult, all these things came out of, as suggested before, out of missing something.” Now, everything is so efficient. Everything is like: this you can say, this you should not say, this is correct, this is not correct.

Now coming back to architecture, I think my architecture gets more and more… rough! The opposite of slick.

—  Yesterday, we visited St. Benedikt Chapel,

Zumthor    That’s old work.

—  Yes, and I felt the work was very precise and sensitive, like functional pieces. I also felt as if we were on a big boat, and the round wooden pieces outside the chapel were the fish. That was my impression.

Zumthor    That’s good you went there. So, you don’t belong to the people who say, “why is your architecture always square and straight?” I’d say, that’s not true.

—  No, they aren’t.

Zumthor    Or, why is your architecture always in wood? Not true!

—  No, they weren’t true!

Zumthor    This is, if you ever go, I have made another chapel, 20 or 25 years later than the St. Benedikt Chapel. This is more existential. It’s nothing like the chapel I made up there. Back then, I promised to the priest. I told him, listen, I am not into church anymore. I went out of the Catholic Church. But I could make you a chapel with the consciousness of a 17-year-old boy who loves sitting in a church. I would like to be there, and that’s good enough. I guess that’s what I did. It’s a warmhearted, sentimental, and romantic piece. That’s how I felt then, as a boy, for the church. I didn’t believe in authority. This is not an authoritarian chapel. It’s more of a soft piece. And the chapel I did in Germany much later is more essential and more… full of questions. There is a nice essay by a Hungarian philosopher. Do you know this one?

—  No, I don’t.

Zumthor    László Földényi, he is a specialist on melancholia. And, he writes this essay on the chapel of Bruder Klaus, and what he thought about it. Then later he writes, “Years later I was walking in Paris, then I saw a display window and saw an object, which I liked a lot. Then I went inside and bought it even though it was expensive. Later, I used it,” and here he is talking about this peppermill. He said he liked it, and “later turned it around and then I read: Peter Zumthor.” And then he knows, “it’s the same person as this chapel!” He saw the chapel, he wrote about it, later he saw the peppermill, he bought it, and then later, he turned it around and read: Peter Zumthor.

—  When I met you probably three years ago, in the first impression you reminded me of a Japanese monk. That was just my impression. And when I see your architecture, I sometimes feel there is something Japanese about it, and that there is affinity.

Zumthor    That sounds like a compliment.

—  Yes, it is. Because we make furniture, I do feel there is a certain similarity or relevancy. Producing your furniture was very difficult, but it was such a great pleasure to work together again. We felt that you have a clear understanding of the material, and also how to use them.

Zumthor    I grew up in this family of craftsmen. So, already as a boy, I could use my father’s workshop. We didn’t have so much money but had lots of children, so I made all my toys and games by myself. And my father let me use all his tools and all his material. That’s how it worked. I think it turned out quite okay.